YASMINE: You put it online?

WALTER: Put it on Facebook. So we have a website, we have, we have a way to take in some money. And then we went on Facebook, spend $20 on ad credits, and we say like healthy snacks delivered to your doorstep. And there were like 50 people who signed up that week. So yeah, we had to scramble and look for like, snacks, right? So I personally delivered the first 50 boxes to homes individually. I’m like, I want to know why they buy it right?

YASMINE: At that time was it like, even packaged under BoxGreen?

WALTER: It was just like a brown box with a sticker, round sticker on it. I met some really interesting people. I like mostly, I like ladies, in fact, 99% of our consumers, our customers are ladies. Mothers looking for snacks for their kids to bring to school, you have the wife buying snacks for their husband, because they are working really long hours, and they skip dinners. So it’s kind of heartening to know like, ‘Hey, we are actually helping some people. And the snack box is a vehicle to express love or concern to the other like, customers. So we say like, ‘Oh, that’s really cool’. And it’s actually not about like, just convenience. So yeah, this BoxGreen was formed. I mean, we could not use andrewsnuts.com because we got, we got a corporate order from, from, from a government entity. And then they were like, they want to order something for their pantries or to give it to their staff. Fast forward to today, we serve corporate offices, Twitter, LinkedIn, Uber, Grab, banks like DBS, they, I mean, over 300 companies. We kind of supply healthy snacks to the office pantries. So yeah, we still have the consumer business, but a lot of it is, this focus now on the enterprise space.

YASMINE: Awesome. So it’s kind of curious. So how long were you guys testing it out
before you tried to quit? And then joined it full time?

WALTER: We started the idea in April 2014, gave it six months and it was, it was about like, packing snacks afterward, walking to the post office to deliver the boxes it at midnight. It’s come to a point where we couldn’t finish packing even on weekends. So six months in, I’m like, ‘Okay, let’s give it a shot’. Like, what’s the worst thing that can happen? For personal reasons, I thought I should go first. And then Andrew can just hang back for like half a year. Sure enough, I think six months on, I couldn’t handle. I was packing and my parents were thinking I’m crazy. I mean, I convinced Andrew like, ‘Hey, you gotta come on board man’. Like, we need help and then we joined Accelerator just to kind of like be part of an ecosystem of entrepreneurs. We were first time entrepreneurs, we needed help.

YASMINE: Other than like the coffee chat that you had with Andrew and was called
andrewsnuts.com, how did it evolve and, and kind of what is the vision that
you have today for BoxGreen?

WALTER: So the other companies around in the US and the UK that are pretty
successful, so we thought like, hey, that business model exists means something is there, right? So when we started selling, I think there was one component that really stood out to us like, we look at Toms Shoes, Ben and Jerry’s, Patagonia, we look at brands like them, they have a social purpose baked into their business right from day one. So for us, we always wanted to give back. So even before the business got started, or when he was starting, we have been volunteering at soup kitchens. I mean, from my perspective, it is more like, ‘Okay the people who could afford our product are probably more affluent, white collar working adults”. But there’s also another part of the population that can’t even afford the basic three meals. So that’s the basic premise, right? So the one for one is the easiest, buying one and giving one is the easiest concept for consumers to get it, to know that our cause is straightforward and direct. So after talking to a few soup kitchens, Willing Hearts, a local soup kitchen, Tony who is the founder is really awesome. So don’t even give me money, just buy me chickens and eggs and then just donate that or let us cook it, right? So we did the hosting of like, chopping, cooking, to the packing, the delivering to the doorstep. And you can really feel that the impact is there and the end to end. It’s not so much like why donate $1 and then actually only 10, 10% ends up with the beneficiary. So in this case all, I think the majority of it I would say 80% percent just goes to the beneficiary. So with that, I think the vision then kind of evolves around snacking, cook to doing good. We wanted to like, tell the customer like whereas you’re buying from us the product is great, you are doing your snacking good, but yeah, at the same time doing good for someone else. So yeah, that’s kind of like the, the vision of where it is. And I think four years down the road is, we’re so evolved a little bit broader, like we want to create a happy, healthy people and planet. I think that kind of like, encompasses what a food company wants to become. So in everything we do, we try to see, is this better for you, as an individual? And then are you happy? Like, in the office, when you see all snacks, like, like, wherever you are, I hope that product kind of brings joy to, to the workplace or at home. So yeah.

YASMINE: Well, I like your logo, tell me more about the logo and why you guys chose
It?

WALTER: Well, those logos was head thought again by , 99 designs. Again, it was
really about like, Okay, we got two nutty guys and then what animals kind of
eat nuts like a squirrel, most of the nut companies here have like, kangaroo,
camel. Yeah, I think squirrel seems, seems like great, great mascot.

YASMINE: So the first time I saw your brand, the reason why I love it, it’s a favorite,
actually is a squirrel and when I see a squirrel it gets me happy, so like it’s the
best branding ever, it’s a squirrel. So I know that you guys also went about and raised money. So how did you go and take that vision and take it to investors and get them to actually pull out their pockets and be like, hey, we’ll actually invest?

WALTER: The positioning initially was a subscription model. We modeled after five
years ago, the ecosystem for startups. I think you have beauty boxes, snack
boxes, subscription, anything, right? So naturally, I think there is a demand for investment into this space, but we kind of know the tail end of it where most of these subscription boxes can go bust. So going through Accelerator kind of primed us like okay, you’re kind of like a tech startup. You know, we geared towards there. We have a CTO in-house, there’s where the trend was, so we just followed along. And also I was telling Andrew like, okay, you know, this Accelerator or Incubator is giving us some money 50 grand, that’s run for a year and see where we’re at and if we don’t make it, just move on, right? So we gave ourselves a timeline. And then and then I mean, the Accelerator, Incubator kind of prepped us for investment. We didn’t get any investment out of it, but I think the whole training was great. Subsequently, I think incubators of government funds, there was some grants to kind of help us through. So we tapped on that to raise our seed round, along with another B, C. So 500 startups ,expired ventures, the power of seed round and see healthy snacking as a trend, as evolving and the thing we can do more, kind of either be the Ecommerce space or a subscription model direct to businesses or consumers.

YASMINE: So it’s actually a trend and people are focusing on the fact that there is a
shift from being unhealthy. There is actually almost a three documentary is
from, one is called blown on the McDonald’s one. Then there was one point like that documentary about like, eating unhealthy and then after that, there’s a trickle of like awareness around all this health benefits and also this trend that has come to like, be healthy. So they’re are sucked into that problem, there is an actually a problem that is growing.

WALTER: I mean, we were focused on the business model subscription, we realize, hey, that there should be more to it’s not just a business model, it is like why we started it because we couldn’t find healthy snacks at work. And hence the shift to where it is right now. Like we go back to the origin, we were in one big round, and we realized like, hey, comes back to helping officers, their employees snack better because they spend like 1/3 of your life and sitting in a desk most likely. And it’s

YASMINE: Of course the companies will spend a lot more.

WALTER: Yeah, eight, 12 hours a day, right? And then they don’t really pay attention to what they put in their bodies. I mean, the seed funding was great, but the funds run out. If you don’t, you just don’t manage it well enough. And you start thinking like, hey, what’s the core business is about?

YASMINE: Moving from that, like, how, how did you get the first couple of customer
that, you know, you obviously, you went to the Incubator, you had $50 on Facebook, and then you were doing a lot of consumers up, how do you go about from that to the company level and like, what were they looking at buying from you, like, what are they struggling with?

WALTER: Because the good thing about our product is anyone can consume it, right? So we will always, we always ask our customers again, like, consumers ordering for the office, the office manager sees it, tries it and like, hey, why not, right? So companies like PayPal, when you realize, oh, there are 20 employees and PayPal with their email address buying from us, that means an office has an issue, right? So we just like picking or catch up with the office manager and we have a chat with them. And sure enough, they’re like, Okay, actually, there’s like, the office manager is always saying oh people want healthy options, healthy options but like, we don’t know where or like, just a hassle to keep buying, why not someone do it for us. Okay, sure of this, then give us a shot, we’ll help you, right? So we’re sure about that definitely, I think the brand and what it stands for, health, and then the social part of wanting to do good came across. Of course, the initial sales, it was, it was tough. I think as a founder, we gotta like, go in and convince people to give us a shot. But I mean, companies are more than happy to give startups a try. I think that telling them about the story about how a banker ended up selling nuts, I mean, that’s exactly what our investors say, right? Like, they just remember two years ago, two guys locked-in crazy about nuts, lucky enough to go into it.

YASMINE: You kind of went from selling just nuts to now actually managing companies’ pantries and how did you go from just like, selling one product to be like, Hey, let’s take over the whole shebang for you.

WALTER: So we realized we had like, a couple 100 of companies that you know, purchase from us, right? And then when we when we go back and talk to office managers again and it’s always about finding out what’s their pain point and why they want to continue to stay relevant. We always ask them, like, Why choose us, right? Service is great, I think we decided to even be more service-oriented to pay attention to them. So we have dedicated account managers to check in and they can reach out to WhatsApp. They can buy things on like Amazon or Redmart, or like supermarkets online. But the main problem is they don’t have the time to do it. And they want to spend time on more important things like facilities management. And you know, just to free up that space or like to know that, you know, we are professionals in making the pantries like, healthy. Leave it to us, so that you look good in front of your boss. So with that, you know, when we spoke them a little bit more, they realized that all right, ‘You know, we’ve been ordering from so many different suppliers, that we have fruit day, we order from fruit vendor, we have like, coffee beans from somewhere, we have like, snacks, we have like the indulgent snacks like, could you all just like, do it for us, right? With the trend of companies that we started exploring, like maybe we could try to get a better rate for you guys and true enough, we are going to source our suppliers for foods. And we’re like, here we are 20 companies, they seem to be buying fruits from you. Why don’t you just, we just order on behalf of them. And you just pay to one person to get the bigger volume of the business because companies who have never tried them will get to try them. So it’s a win-win. I think for us like value adding to the office manager, we are, we’re really focused on that right now. Like, how do we make the office even better place, to help happier? Like, is it about just having Oreos? No, like about having like, some cold pressed juices and fruits? Like, puts you out, right? So we think around that space, and we think we can play a part. So I think we come in and fit in quite well.

YASMINE: The supplier’s are dependent on you, do you have like, a resistance at the very beginning? And are they saying hey, you know, we’re coming to you? Were they worried that future business from them, try to get them on board? Or would they like, if you sell like, hey, perfect, that story makes sense. I’m bought and I’m gonna sign up.

WALTER: I think people was like, suppliers are skeptical. They probably have seen a couple more guys with such ideas, but they don’t last. Of course, there’s that’s business to be made of these guys. They definitely strike a deal with you to give you a chance for overseas market. I flew to Taiwan, I drove down to the factory, I spoke to them. I said, you know, we want to build a relationship with you. Now we’re ordering more. We want to like, customize our snacks with you and ship it out during the day. They give us a shot many times, there are competitors who are like, oh, you can’t buy from overseas. They’re just using price or like exclusivity as a differentiator. If it is, benefits the ecosystem more people get eat healthy, I don’t see why you should have such exclusivity. So especially if you’re out pricing everyone in the market. I think that is fair. So we went to like Australia to look for the supplier, they’re like, okay, I’ll sell you. So you know, this is the fact that everyone wins, right? It’s never like, ‘Oh, I’m not free to take my business. It’s a bigger share. I mean, we are fighting with like, we should be fighting with the Lay’s chips, right? And like, make healthier, more accessible. It’s silly, because like junk food is more success, way cheaper than anything else. So yeah, I think people will understand and they are in the business of helping people they will give us a shot.

YASMINE: So I’m kind of curious right now because I’m getting, because now the healthy stuff is more expensive than other stuff. And right now people have a new price as a way to kind of tell a story. Yeah. But right now the markets are doing well. But when the markets crash and how will you guys like craft the story to make it still relevant to companies, when they’re gonna say, actually cut price?

WALTER: Well, let me, we talk about it before as well. Price is always in any situation one of the deciding factors, enterprises and consumers, right? So for us, the approach was always to remain relevant by providing value. We work with budgets of all kinds of sorts, we don’t, we don’t narrow it down to ‘Oh, you gotta pay $10 per employee, if you have $1.50, we do work with you. Yeah. Is it, we customized based on their budget and what we tell them is, you know, investing in your employees, this is the cheapest, or the best investment you get. I wouldn’t say cheapest, the best ROI, you can give your employees $1 or you can buy them a fruit. And then you know, it means a different thing altogether, right? It means you care, right it means you care and that translates to something else. And I think employee welfare, mental well being, morale is even more important during a downtime, to be honest. You can, you can buy them as many McDonald’s where there is a company sticking for them, taking care of them during tough times, I think is an easy sell, right?

YASMINE: Of course yeah yeah yeah

WALTER: and the investment ROI, there’s no point saving it.

YASMINE: So as we’re kind of wrapping up this podcast, I wanted to just ask you like, what is your own personal vision? And why do we do everyday like, why do you wake up in the morning? What’s the point of all this?

WALTER: Honestly, every day is a learning journey. And one thing’s for sure is doing
good. It’s what my partner Andrew, he’s like a moral compass. He has it on his mind. Like, that’s the one thing that we should be doing, like leaving the world, like, a better place than before. So doing good is, it’s when we went one round, it’s you have financial difficulties, you have everything, but I think doing good remains the core of the business. And surprisingly, you know, that led to more projects or like opportunities. We’ve been invited to set up a facility in the prison, just to do repackaging of our goods. And we never wanted to be a manufacturer in the first place. We wanted to shut down our manufacturing down like two years ago, because it’s so laborious. We found the, back then we had our Auntie’s packing for us. They are the retirees, single mothers, they come to help us, we make it flexible for them to work. I found them a job at another factory that represent more pay, medical benefits. They didn’t want to. They say like, stop it. They didn’t want it. I said, but we’re shutting it down. Then they say the rest at home. And the next day they brought, they each brought in 10 grand.

YASMINE: Are you serious?

WALTER: Yes. And they say it will start a factory.

YASMINE: How many aunties?

WALTER: Three Auntie’s. Yes. Yeah. And that was like the turning point like, it’s like it is they are not the highest paid in the company. But the fact that they believe and this they are, like savings, Heartland savings. So we match the funds, Andrew and I matched the funds. We set up and saw an ice cream facility, we took it over, we got it running. That was the moment where we realized like, ‘Hey, this is not just a startup, you can just fall and we, this is people’s likelihood. And that led us to the way we are hiring, the way we treat them. You know, that vision is kind of forming around doing good. We’re racing in around with the Impact investor, they came in, they like this whole story as well and what we’re doing. Maybe we don’t articulate it well enough, but the people behind the business are supportive, and the aunties are shareholders now. So it’s funny, but I mean, coming back to why we do this, every day is a learning journey, but it’s always trying to do good. That’s why we give up our jobs. I think that’s how we kind of find it meaningful to us. And if you’re doing it with amazing people, that’s just nothing else you can ask for, right?

YASMINE: Yeah. Just like one last question also to add into this. So you’re obviously a
very proponent to the B Corp movement. Maybe you could share with us what is the B Corp movement?

WALTER: We got certified two years into the business. I think right from the bat, we saw brands like Ben and Jerry’s, Patagonia, Warby Parker. So these are great brands, they’re doing great things. So when you look at the landscape of trying to find out like a certification that will help, we associated with and will be proud of it. Being associated with a body that has great brands, and the ecosystem with all these great people with that, we pursued it. I think, on the other hand, people always feel social enterprises are like brands who like so much into impact, but can’t make profit. They’re like buying our sympathy, students’ stigma here and there. But if you look at boundaries, you’re like, you eat it, they’re like awesome product in the USA. Hey they’re doing amazing things as well. So we want to be like that, right?

YASMINE: Yeah.

WALTER: So it’s really looking at up to them and Okay, let’s get back up soon. So,

YASMINE: Well you’ll definitely do that, you have 300 businesses on board with you.

WALTER: And it’s amazing because people always ask, what’s the ROI? Is there any
tangible results around that right like, but it has paid off so many times, like if you talk to like the fact that we have a vending machine, our own vending machine in Unilever’s office and they’re like oh yeah, they’re B Corp certified. I’m like morning. And then we talk to hotels like Grand Hyatt near like, Oh, are you sustainable, how you doing good. Like there’s something quantifiable we can show him instead of just showing pictures and Andrew is on file or like pictures on. We have something, you can go online, you can see it and then like, we have been certified. This is, we’re open about our information, about why we’re doing some of these things. Yeah, I think it just lends a lot of credibility and weight and you will win the deal, right because of what you believe in.

YASMINE: Yeah, I know I could be in Australia when I was running it, like the B Corp
thing, it really helped us, and not only that but it’s also about having the team, also very much on fire because they realize it’s not just about

WALTER: Making money and we never had problems hiring. We are always people
writing in that’s, that’s amazing. Like, finding these somehow we have it scholars, to people who study it and you pan, and I mean, the whole spectrum, we never had problems hiring. So like, I think that it’s also part of like, why we’re doing it how we are in the B Corp in general.

YASMINE: It is part of this. Well thank you so much for being here today with us.

WALTER: Thanks for having me.

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